dude, i have to say, we go to wal-mart like once and day, we hung out at Joe Muggs like two days in a row, and our brother in law is a manager at starbucks so we try to get hooked up. And who can forget Target…..

yeah, here’s a thought: come live with us in downtown beverly. maybe we could buy a triple decker in glocester crossing and create a wonderful expression of intentional christian community.

well there you go leslie, totally undermining by over-romanticized view of the city.

and gentry, i do love the red sox . . . so . . .

hmm. well certainly you know my heart on these issues based on the several conversations we’ve shared with you and anna in recent weeks.

anyway, since you posted the first piece on suburbia last week, my mind’s been churning on this a lot. hopefully in a week or so i can gather my thoughts into a coherent post on my own blog, but i’d like to share a thought or two here for now, understanding they’re a little premature.

so this is my thought. i agree with you that suburbia has challenges that fly in the face of any semblance of “community.” but unfortunately suburbia isn’t going anywhere. i wish had the numbers for atlanta of how many people live in suburbs vs. downtown areas but i don’t.

so then, does being missional mean moving to an urban* setting where ‘community’ is easily fostered, or might missional living mean finding new ways to engage the land of white picket fences? it just seems to me that picking up shop (like if i were to do that - and believe me i’d like to) and going to an urban place could make it easier for me and my dreams, but does that settle the question of mission? do we leave the people of the suburbs to the devices of the mega/trad churches? i sure hope not.

agreed, i can’t tell you exactly how to overcome the inherent disconnectedness of an atlantan subdivision. but somebody HAS to. and it has to be somebody who is interested in genuine relational community and not in getting people to replace their current disconnectedness with another type of faith-based disconnectedness.

but several experiences in the last two weeks have given me a new hope that this might be possible. perhaps i’ll tell you all about that the next time we hang out face to face.

again, this isn’t because i feel any particular affinity for suburbs. i commute a long way into downtown atlanta everyday and god knows i’d *love* to turn that car ride into a bike ride.

*by urban i mean trendy downtown areas, not low-income areas of poverty. it makes a lot more sense to move into that type of area with an intentional community.

I have to sort of side with d10 here, although my personal opinion is that your ideas of community in the suburbs are extremely short-sighted.

It all comes back to my argument that it’s not the suburbs themselves, but the general attitudes of the people living within that make community difficult. (It’s not so much the location as it is the mindset) Your words- not mine, and I agree- I just fail to see how/why this mindset should be any different in a city.

Your argument that it isn’t as easy to gather with friends and family is noted, and I believe is generally correct. However, in most cases I don’t believe that these “deep relationships” need stimulation that frequently. I can point to examples in my own life where relationships have grown and blossomed with very little contact or communication.

As for shopping at Wal-Mart vice getting to know your local hardware store owner: Just because the place that you shop is owned by a giant corporate entity doesn’t mean that the people that work there are. I find it hard to believe that Wal-Mart would over it’s employee base once a week. The people that wok there today will probably be there tomorrow, next week, perhaps even next year. When was the last time you saw the same cashier twice at the check out line? Or have you ever even bothered to notice?

Just because your neighbor’s door might be five feet away across the hall vice thirty feet across the street doesn’t automatically make you buddies. It still takes the effort to build a relationship.

It takes you and me to make a community- especially in a place where people are used to being isolated.

Why not bake some cookies and take them to a neighbor just for the hell of it?

On a cool evening, why not drag that lovely grill out of the isolation of your backyard into the openness of your front lawn. Just start cooking some burgers. Lots of burgers- invite people up as they walk by. Put up a sign that says “Free Burgers”.

Anyway, I could be misinterpreting your arguments, but I’m pretty sure I’m not. Chances are that that Wal-Mart cashier lives less than ten miles from you; I bet they’d like a burger.

first, when you said “I think the larger question for me is how do you shape and create community? I mean in a perfect world, community is organically birthed in the day-to-day of life. But realistically, we are called to be and in a sense, fashion community that lives by a different set of rules. As the called-out community, we are to envision and flesh out the dreams of God for our world. This has to do with us living in a way that the future reign of God impinges in on the present, thus transforming the present into an alternative “plane” of being a community.”
you hit the nail on the head.

clint has a good point, if i understand correctly, that it is the mindset more than the circumstances. however, i do believe, with Wendell Berry, that “place” - in this case the burbs - and “world view” - here autonomous individualism - go hand in hand. i have lived in the burbs, in the country (WAY OUT in the country), in an urban center, and in towns, and in intentional communities and in every place there was a mindset, or way of life that came standard.

while serving as a pastor in one form of another in each of those places i found that the level of difficulty, in one case impossiblity, of forming healthy community was directly related to the nature of the place. the burbs being the one that was the most difficult - and others who took my place found the same to be true so it wasn’t just that i was a bad shepherd. there is a reason folks move to the burbs - for the most part. yes, there are folks in the burbs who do desire community but many times their efforts to create community end up in culdesacs. it can be done, but i don’t think that was your point right? your point is that the burbs make it difficult if not nearly impossible.

again, i would say that the “place” determines to a large extent beyond our control the nature and quality of the community we are able to create or find.

also, i think it comes down to a question of what kind of lifestyle you want to have and what are the sacrifices you must make to have that lifestyle.

good thoughts man.

this is good conversation. I agree with ben that we don’t necessarily need to take the “easy” way out by just moving to the city, but as you said, and mike reiterated, it is all about the mindset of the people.

I don’t live in a neighborhood. I live on a horse farm. There is this house down the road that has 3 grills and a lot of chairs out in front. Every holiday since we’ve been here, they have had a huge number of people enjoying the cookout. I assume it’s all family. And I assume that I would not necessarily be welcomed if we just stopped by (there’s no sign for free burgers). Not even living in a neighborhood has made it quite difficult for me to even know where to begin to create community around me. And so I haven’t. I continue to enjoy the one we’ve formed with friends who live at least 20 minutes away.

We’ll come over and help you cook free burgers, man.

d10, i agree that picking up shop is not the answer. and i’m like you. it has less to do with the place and people and more to do with the mindset that the place and people create.

mike, you really brought that up in your comment which is a great insight. there really is something more going on behind the scenes just people’s preferences. these “places” have different worldviews. that’s why you can go into any subdivision across the country and be comfortable with the majority worldview that overarches it. typically (although this is just the stereotypical majority), materialism, consumerism, patriotism to the exclusion of the blessing of the world, individualism, and a whole bunch of other “isms”. so for me, its difficult because while I struggle with those things just as much as the next person, i find myself extremely uncomfortable and restless being in the minority. whoa is me right? now i know how all sorts of different minority people groups have felt throughout history. but i think that’s what makes this situation difficult. this lack of diversity. and the american suburban situation is even more difficult because of the underlying arrogance that materialism, consumerism, nationalism, etc, etc are the best and only option. and we have essentially evolved to this point and everyone else is behind the curve and needs to catch up.

clint, i’m not saying that it’s not possible. or that the suburbs are evil. all i am saying is that it is more difficult. like mike i’ve lived in 2 different types of places. and after 5 years of living in the suburbs, its becoming an extremely tiring effort. i know you don’t get rid of the problem in the city, but in the city people are usually more open to new ideas, different perspectives, etc. because they’ve rubbed elbows with different views, structures, people, cultures. they are ok with different. diversity is a value.

for example, your wal-mart example. wal-mart is one of the things that symbolizes the suburbs for me. individualism. our well-being (saving a few dollars on products) is more important than the unethical practices which include sweat shop labor, environmental hazards, and low wages. not to mention the closing of local businesses who actually care about the local economy and community. but we’ll allow wal-mart without even thinking about it because it saves us a few bucks. i’ve shopped at wal-mart. believe it or not i still find myself in there from time to time. but i’m trying to get better about making sure my spending habits and the things that i support are on the same page with how God would operate in our marketplace. and i’m more and more convinced, that wal-mart probably wouldn’t make it to the top of that list.

as for my subdivision. i talk to my neighbors. stop them in my front yard as they walk by. water the lawn with my next door neighbor. but that is the exception rather than the norm. when they pull directly into their garage and shut the door and lock the door. for me to show up knocking on the door becomes nothing more than the door-to-door evangelists or the damn newspaper guy that shows up at my door at least once a week.

there is a different mindset in the suburbs. one that is shaped by different values and different priorities. one that is not inherently evil in and of themselves. but one that seems to be running countercurrent to the kingdom of God that Jesus talked about so much.

consumerism, nationalism, materialism, exclusion, lack of diversity. i’m not saying these don’t exist in the city or the small town community or inner city. but they are not as rooted and foundational in my opinion.

I get your issues with the mindset- it’s sort of hard for me to remember what the south is like, I’ve been gone so long. It’s just that the places I’ve lived in recent years have been so different; the people have been so different.

I am afraid though, that I must attack your attitude towards Wal-Mart. First, the sweatshop worker symbolization: While most of the products at Wal-Mart probablly come from China, or Taiwan, I would argue that there is very little sweatshop labor involved. Although the workers there do work long hours for low wages- these are problems mainly with with these individual countiries’ governments/economies.

If you still have a problem with this, then you’d be hard pressed to buy anything anywhere- because the same products are available for purchase on the shelves of your “local” retailer.

Not to mention the fact that a single Wal-Mart store can provide (and I’m just guessing here) probably more than a hundred jobs to many unskilled/uneducated workers in a community.

I don’t want to sound like I’m attacking you, I just don’t think you’re being very circumspect with your arguments. It seems that you’re nostalgic for an American culture that once was.

i’ve been thinking more about the question of diversity that you bring up, and i want to throw something out there.

we live in a neighborhood that has very much the ‘copy and paste’ feel, and in that sense it is not diverse.

but ethnically, gina and i are the minority. we go on a walk in our neighborhood, and we won’t see another white couple, either in their yard or driving by in a car. every person we see is either african american, asian (korean, japanese, etc.), indian/paki, etc. we see a lot of kids out playing in our neighborhood and a lot of people in their yards.

for our neighborhood, the biggest challenge in engaging the people around us probably is this very diversity because of two simple reasons. first of all, a very significant proportion of these neighbors don’t speak english. second of all, (i’m hesitant to even bring this up) i’m not sure how to, as a white guy, engage the african american culture of our neighborhood in a meaningful way, and believe me i’d like to.

so i guess, the way i see it in your neighborhood everybody being the same makes it difficult, and in ours everybody being different makes it difficult. and that just might be the difference in a place like buford and a place like duluth, even though 20 min separated. both have different challenges.

yeah. i guess i was referring more to openess to diversity. there’s a good chance in your neighborhood that people are going to be open, if not accepting of different perspectives. so i was thinking more along the lines of plurality of cultures being a better starting point for creativity and a better portrait of the kingdom of god than similarity and cookie-cutters.

but you’ve got an excellent point. i hadn’t thought about that before.

hmmm, on a side note regarding walmart i think it would be helpful if everyone went and checked out the film “walmart the high cost of low prices.” here is a link to the website http://www.walmartmovie.com/

actually they do sell products produced in sweat shops - they took the cameras there and show you.

i am slowly working my way towards only buying products that are made in the US or that it is proven that the workers are treated fairly. i am not perfect at it but one can do so to a great extent and not shopping at walmart/kmart et al is the first step. the hardest part is finding boxers, socks and cheap work shirts interestingly enough.

so it can be done (not perfectly mind you) you just have to spend a little extra or go with out.

anyway, side note.

amen mike! that’s why i only drink miller. i’m sick of drinking beer that was produced outside of the good ole usa.

i’ve seen the wal-mart video. and i like you am not perfect. i still sort of pick and choose where i shop. but i am trying to make a much more concious effort to realize what the effects of my spending habits have on other people.

gentry…

when it comes to beer i make an exception. beer produced in a sweat shop is just better for some reason.

hmmm sweat shop beer…gallll

The Wal-Mart movie is phenomenal! It’s one of the best documentaries I’ve seen in a while (and I watch a lot of documentaries).

Clint-
I agree with you when you say that it is the peoples attitude in any given community (suburbs, city or country) that make up for the communal climate but I do believe that architecture and social structuring have a lot to do with what Robert Putnam calls Social Capital. In his book Bowling Alone he speaks of how in the last 25 years our social capital in America has plummeted drastically. Social capital can be classified as any kind of interactions that happen within a community (Lions Club, Bowling Leagues, dinners with neighbors, etc.). Obviously he speaks of organizations and clubs that may be dying for reasons not socially related (there aren’t as many veterans of war as there used to be so naturally the V.A. has dropped in numbers), but I find a lot of what he has to say as very relevant to our generation.

Along those lines I would make the argument that our society no longer has much of the needed infrastructure to facilitate burgeoning, healthy communities. We don’t build cities or towns in ways that encourage interaction with strangers, neighbors or friends (hey, I have a strange neighbor who is also my friend, cool huh?). Something as simple as creating a public place for people to sit encourages interaction (and potentially community). The city planners in New York have known this for years and as a result have created small parks and squares for people to congregate and enjoy each others company. If you’ve ever traveled to Europe you’ll see these ideas put into action (i.e. town squares).

Thanks for starting this conversation Josh; I find it extremely relevant and stimulating.

bowling alone is an excellent read. and you said it pretty well corey. its really the infrastructure that is lacking. suburbs just don’t feel like they are as set up for the most ideal circumstances. not saying it’s impossible. just challenging.

I like Corey’s comment about the parks, recreation areas, etc. in the city. I also like that we have the same type areas in my new suburban neighborhood. There are small parks scattered throughout with playground equipment, large open fields with charcoal grill set out, swimming pools, basketball, nice wide sidewalks, etc…

My favorite part is that you actually see people out there socializing and participating in each other’s lives (at least until the temperature started averaging out in the 110’s).

My subdivision is new development, and in AZ there’s room to allocate for such features in a neighborhood. I don’t know this design goes country-wide, but it could be a promising new trend in suburban development.

Also (and I haven’t seen the Wal-Mart video yet, so be nice) what we call a sweatshop, other cultures may call the normal grind. Remember, before workers unionized and new laws were negotiated, many jobs in industrial America were what we would call abusive employment- we’re just blessed enough to be able to have the freedom to stick it to the man (well, at least every once in a while).

All I’m saying I guess is that it’s a matter of perspective- like I would never want to live or work in China- at least not as an average Joe. They live what I see as sad, impoverished lives- but the Chinese don’t know any different- to them being able to feed and care for their family is happiness enough.

clint,

i appriciate your sentiment that there are cultural differences between nations and one nations sweat shop is another nations… uh what ever. and that reasoning is good when applied to things like food, or arts, or folks ways etc.

but when it comes to social justice - and that is what we are really talking about when we are talking about workers rights - the standard changes. what is just as far as human rights in one nation is just everywhere because it is a universal. i am not saying the US should determine that standard btw. what i am saying is that culture is irrelavant when it comes to the question of what is right and wrong and human rights. chinas industry violates human rights day and night - and every administration up until the current one acknowledged that and worked to change it.

so when we are talking about sweat shops we are not talking about a moving, culturally relative standard. and just because the people involved accept the behavior does not make it acceptable for us to support that behavior.

as a christian christ calls me to be aware of how my life impacts the lives of others good and bad and the justice part comes in when i work to reduce and eliminate the bad impact my life has upon the rest of humanity and creation.

not buying clothes made in chinese sweat shops is a part of that - at least for me. i suppose some one could see it through a free market lense but those lenses give me a head ache.

I can see your argument, mike- and I agree that there are standards that go beyond cultural and ethnic practice.

However, and pardon my free market reasoning- but what happens to the worker when there is no more demand for their product? What happens when the factory has to close because noone will buy what they manufacture?

Of course, I guess in a communist country factories probably aren’t allowed to close.

clint, i guess i would say it’s better than nothing. but that in no way makes it right. or justified. equality and fair treatment of all of humanity is not just an american priviledge. but should be globally as well.

clint - free market forgiven. i have a buddy who makes that kind of argument to justify everything (not that you are doing that) and what i am trying to get him to understand is that i am not against the free market. i am for a regulated one.

anyway, a good example of what could happen is with aparthide in South Africa. this was not the death blow, but when americans became conscious about what the governments policies were and boycotted companies that did business with the white minority gov then those companies began to put pressure on the gov and eventually changes occured.

if walmart got wind that it was loosing customers because of sweat shops abroad, or its illegal (yes illegal you have to see the documentary) behavior here regarding its own employees you bet it would change its practices and i suspect that the result would be that we just paid $4 for that bushel of tube sox instead of .5 cents to cover the cost of a better wage and so on.

china is rising economically and gloabally and has already responded to urgings and promptings from previous administrations and corporate leaders regarding human rights and environmental security because they want to continue to expand into the global market.

so it isn’t anit-free market, it is the free market used to cause change.

clint, if walmart went into those factories and said that they would pull out if they didn’t change - they would change. one actually gets that impression from the video.

also, there is something faulty in your reasoning. you argue that if we don’t shop at walmart, then walmart stops using sweat shops, then the sweat shops close and the workers don’t make anything. so we should buy products made in sweat shops if for no other reason then that it at least gives those folks work. that is an ends justify the means / the best of two evils argument. but it fails for two reasons. first, as a christian we are not permitted to justify our means by the ends. for us, the means are as important as the end. second, earlier you sighted that the US had similar practices in our past. well what happened? people protested (many gave their lives - think of the efforts to unionize the mining industry) eventually the government stepped in and conditions were changed. did the mining industry come to a hault and millions go hungry? no. the industry changed its practices and past the cost on to the consumer and the workers gained their rights. that is actually how the free market is suposed to work - it adjusts to the culture and the climate and to the law.

thanks for making me think about these things.

josh, sorry for taking this down a rabbit hole. james and i deal with this a lot on his blog when ever he posts one of his “liberal-comy” posts about the injustices of the free market and so maybe i should have taken it over there.

dude. no worries. i’m always up for some economic talk. i’m so intrigued and so horrible at the practice of it. and its such a sticky situation because it’s not black and white. like if i boycott wal-mart its going to change everything. but maybe i’ll work on a post for this sometime in the future. but chase whatever rabbit trail you guys want to chase. i’ll keep following it. i’m enjoying both perspectives.

I still struggle with the cultural issue.

I’m not sure why- but it just seems that if a thing is generally accepted by a people, it’s hard for me to lable it as wrong or unconcionable.

I think of the ways women are beginning to push for more freedoms in Islamic communities. Some people call the way they had been treated oprression. The thing is, they have lived like that for how long? Hundreds of years? Women understood their cultural role and accepted it- many times happily. And there are those still today that don’t want the freedom, who are comfortable with their present situation.

There is this movement, though. Some women want to do things differently than the way they’ve always been done. And culture is changing (albeit slowly) to accomodate some of these desires.

I’ve never been to China, I’ve never interviewed a Chinese person, but from what I’ve seen and heard (via Discovery mostly) the Chinese are more or less ok with their situation. I see happy families with children playing, and although they may be poor- it seems as though they are content.

I believe wholeheartedly that our way of life is much better, but until people are bothered enough with their own situation many are unwilling to change it themselves. Our own policies and actions can to a lot to start a ball rolling, but unless the people of a society are willing to change themselves, it’s hard to say how much things can change.

I think the question is, how can we teach people a better way of life without “invading” their culture. I’m sure it’s been a problem that missionaries have struggled with.

what about the issue of homosexuality then. which you were against back in that post we discussed. it’s generally accepted in our culture. so it’s got to be hard to label it as wrong or unconciable. just playing the devil’s advocate.

Surburbs are designed to compartmentalize life. There is a section to shop (the commercial zone), there is a place to sleep (residential), there is a place to work (industrial) and so on. Compare this to urban and small town areas. Everything is either built on top each other or is literally one to two blocks away. As someone who has lived in urban, suburban, small town and rural settings, I have noticed a remarkable difference simply by the infrastructure of the differing areas. So I think its more than a mindset.

Certainly the mindset produced such a comparmentalized structure and, just off the top of my head, I would guess the governing value was “functionality”. Since the 40’s American’s have placed a premium on effieciency and functionality and the suburbs provide that. People in the suburbs usually sleep quite well; there’s very little traffic that goes by. Businesses can bring in the biggest delivery trucks anytime they want and not have to worry about the neighborhood children playing frisbee in the street. So there is an efficiency to a compartmentalized life. But now, the structure works against a desired change for greater community involvment. Suburbanites hardly walk anywhere. If you’re fortunate, one’s school or city park is nearby, but not usually. These kinds of things create greater isolation. Developers are taking note of this and are now creating shopping “villages” that integrate parks and recreational activities next to the restaurants and stores so families don’t feel they have to leave once they get their shopping done.

I’m 29 and grew up in the suburbs and my folks still live there. And do you know what we’ve always had? A deck. Not a porch (in the front), but a deck (in the back). My father loves his deck because nobody can see him. I had a front porch on the house I rented in college. Whenever I have a chance to build or buy a house, I want to have a front porch.

I do believe suburbanites have a challenge simply getting past the structure of suburbia, let alone the people.

brian,
thanks for stopping by. these are excellent thoughts. the idea of compartmentalizing the different sectors of our lives to certain areas. which i had never thought of before. i know it’s not so cut and dry in all suburbs. but in the city you definitely get the feel that its much more connected and layered that outside of it.

i really enjoyed your point about decks out back instead of front porches. good stuff. thanks for sharing.

clint, yeah you make a good point about culture. i am not saying that i am an advocate of hegemony (in ancient times it was called hellenism when the roman empire did it, today when the US does it we call it globalism and westernism).

but it was good you made that point in case that was coming accross.

this is an extreme example and i apologize for the hyperbole - i am tired and can’t think of a better example - african slaves at one point accepted their fate but that does not make slavery right. now i am not saying that walmart enslaves anyone, not in that sense. like i said, i acknowledge the hyperbole, but the point remains the same. namely that just because a culture accepts something doesn’t make it right (ibid josh’s example above).

if we are to take Jesus seriously we must come to the place where we subject our feelings, thoughts, rationalities and understanding of the world, economics, history, and society to his standards of what is good and true and beautiful.

brian,

excellent point about decks vs porches. our group realized a couple of weeks ago that cooking on the deck sucked. all you do is sit in your bubble and cook. when we moved the grill to the front yard it opened up a whole new world. people would sit on the porch or stairs and neighbors walking the dog would tend to congregate around us. it was a great way to open us up to more of the neighbors. and a much more natural place to congregate.

if i buy a house, a porch is the must have.

[...] i debated if i wanted to pingback this post from Josh’s website.  mainly because i’m not sure how much it has to do with the topic in it’s current form of discussion.  but in the end i think there’s a connection,  so with that in mind i’m going to try to do a few “top ten” posts on why we should support and buy local as opposed to buying from the super wal-mart down the street.  My first top ten is taken from the Georgia Organics website and it deals with buing local food: [...]

I can’t sit on my back porch for more than 5 minutes. It’s too lonely. I probably still wouldn’t see anybody if I were on a front porch (see as how I live on a horse farm and we can’t see the road from our house), but at least there’s the possibility of even seeing someone who lives in the main house walking by to go to the barn, or wherever.

This talk of front porches reminds me of a planned communtiy (read suburban) concept I’ve come up with. It’s fairly simple:

First, eliminate the backyard. You could maybe keep a small courtyard for the occaisional outdoor candlelight dinner for two, but shouldn’t be big enough to accomodate much more than that.

Second, streets and roads should run behind the homes in the neighborhood. Streets would become more like wide alleyways with a streamlined, functional purpose. Garages are accessible on the rear of homes, and the rear entrance of each home could easily be used for deliveries, garbage pick-up, etc. without trucks causing disturbances.

Third, front lawns should be big, connected, and there should be gorgeous, wide sidewalks running between the fronts of the houses. In between front lawns you could include communtity areas like playgrounds, parks, etc.

Fourth, the population should be approx 86% caucasian, 8-9% african american, and 5-6% “other” (i.e. asian, indian, polyne- hahaha just kidding- you were starting to get mad, weren’t you?

Anyway, you could vary the formula a little and get the same result. It effectively takes all the houses in the average suburban neighborhood and turns them around so that they face each other. And if you want to hang outside, you’re forced to do it where other people will be.

I might highlight it sometime on my blog, as I fully intend to write a communtiy series there as well (I’m still doing research), but I thought I’d share it here anyway. Just a little idea I had while discussing all this suburbia.

clint,

holy crap! i love it! it reminds me for some reason of the town in “Big Fish” where the obi-wan character and the giant go. i’m not sure why, but i had the same feeling inside when i was picturing what you described.

oh, it that feeling was magic. just add fireflies.

clint, that sounds like little towns back in Kansas what with the connected, large front yards, parking in the back via small ally roads, etc.

MIke, so you’re saying that places like these actually exist?

yes. they have for a very long time. but they are being purchased, leveled and track homes/burbs and malls are being built in their place.

Seth and Clint,

Here is the link to a book a guy named Christopher Alexander wrote back in the 70’s called . The name sounds kind of boring but the content inside is amazing! He talks of how we can design cities and towns in such a way that they promote community. And this guy gets detailed. He talks about everything from the demographics of a neighborhood to what direction you should face your house so that it utilizes the maximium amount of Sunshine.

The book is actually viewed as kind of a bible in the urban design community.

uhh, i dont think i linked that right. sorry. The title of the book is A Pattern Language. You can click on any of the words after “called” and it will link you to the book. sorry josh.

are you kidding me corey? do you know how hard i think html is?

corey, that is a good book have you read the sequal/second volume?

what is interesting is how the theory can be applied to other fields. he actually studied villages and towns to come up with this so it isn’t some abstract BS on what “should” be.

man i thought i was an uber dork for reading that thing. glad to know i am not the only one.

Mike,

I just put the sequel on hold at my local library. I would like to eventually get to a place where i could apply some of the things he talks about in his book. I would also love to take a trip to some of the towns he has already helped in creating to see his theories in action.

I think he has built a small housing development somewhere in Oregon.

yeah i think the Oregon town he wrote or is writing a third? book about.

i just found it a cool book and i was surprised at how i could apply some of the ideas in my remodel work even though on a much smaller scale.

[...] We’ve had some good conversations: on homosexuality, on the suburbs, on slow living, and on house church, to name a few. And this has all been in the last 5 months! [...]

My wife and I recently moved to Long Island, which is an unusual suburb because it was one of the first. It is fairly well diverse. The houses in our neighborhood don’t all look the same. And, we can get by with one car thanks to the bus and train system. Still, it’s a challenge building community at church with folks always going elsewhere to work and do so many other things.