Comments on: reimagining Capitalism (part one) http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/ irregularities and other absurdities Sat, 06 Mar 2010 04:23:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Steve http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-101467 Steve Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:54:10 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/?p=1679#comment-101467 You prompted some interesting thoughts for me, but I think what is most intriguing is the contrast of capitalism with the life of Jesus. You mentioned concepts like rolling the red carpet back up after a purchase has been made or customer service stopping once the money is in the bank. I find that totally contrary to a relationship with Christ. Accepting God's gift of forgiveness is sort of like a purchase (I'm not trying to be a heretic here, I know it's a free gift), but that's where the "service" really begins. A relationship with Christ doesn't reach its full potential before there is an acceptance of His love. In fact, it works in an opposite manner. We accept Him and then gradually build our relationship with Him throughout our lifetime. And even when we die, the best is yet to come. You prompted some interesting thoughts for me, but I think what is most intriguing is the contrast of capitalism with the life of Jesus. You mentioned concepts like rolling the red carpet back up after a purchase has been made or customer service stopping once the money is in the bank. I find that totally contrary to a relationship with Christ. Accepting God’s gift of forgiveness is sort of like a purchase (I’m not trying to be a heretic here, I know it’s a free gift), but that’s where the “service” really begins. A relationship with Christ doesn’t reach its full potential before there is an acceptance of His love. In fact, it works in an opposite manner. We accept Him and then gradually build our relationship with Him throughout our lifetime. And even when we die, the best is yet to come.

]]> By: Josh Walchester http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-70397 Josh Walchester Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:30:01 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/?p=1679#comment-70397 I know you've written a lot on this, but I'm starting at the beginning. To me the free market is this mathematical ideal state where customers who are totally free to choose and have perfect information pick the best service, then all the other service providers who lost out compare themselves to the best and maybe change. The free market even in a perfect world requires you to be a moralist (if I haven't misunderstood you): It moulds to your decisions, and if you ask them to, people will grind their employees to dust to get you the lowest price. If you think that Walmart etc have a bad policy, just don't shop there, or decide how much extra you are willing to pay for better treatment, compared to the competitors. You cannot trust the market to consider things you don't, because its built out of lots of people like you! But that ignores local-ness, control over access to resources, limited information and all kinds of funny business that makes markets inefficient and realistic. So do I trust the invisible hand? Yes, but it belongs to God, and he knows how we should do business! The thought experiments require too much of people for me to trust them as a model of our world, as I know when I buy something I feel very clearly the lack of information I have about it. That doesn't stop me wanting to do everything I can to spread information of course, but it has to be in human-readable form, and variety engineering is hard! Oooh, one more idea: I would suggest the best way to get a picture of what is redeemable in something is to find someone who likes it! So don't write off communism and socialism until you have talked to a few of their supporters and know why they like them. I know you’ve written a lot on this, but I’m starting at the beginning. To me the free market is this mathematical ideal state where customers who are totally free to choose and have perfect information pick the best service, then all the other service providers who lost out compare themselves to the best and maybe change. The free market even in a perfect world requires you to be a moralist (if I haven’t misunderstood you): It moulds to your decisions, and if you ask them to, people will grind their employees to dust to get you the lowest price. If you think that Walmart etc have a bad policy, just don’t shop there, or decide how much extra you are willing to pay for better treatment, compared to the competitors. You cannot trust the market to consider things you don’t, because its built out of lots of people like you! But that ignores local-ness, control over access to resources, limited information and all kinds of funny business that makes markets inefficient and realistic. So do I trust the invisible hand? Yes, but it belongs to God, and he knows how we should do business! The thought experiments require too much of people for me to trust them as a model of our world, as I know when I buy something I feel very clearly the lack of information I have about it. That doesn’t stop me wanting to do everything I can to spread information of course, but it has to be in human-readable form, and variety engineering is hard! Oooh, one more idea: I would suggest the best way to get a picture of what is redeemable in something is to find someone who likes it! So don’t write off communism and socialism until you have talked to a few of their supporters and know why they like them.

]]> By: jason http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-20284 jason Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:46:42 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/?p=1679#comment-20284 I think I would proclaim myself socialist, and on the way to communism. Customer service aside; how do mega corporations manage to survive in a capitalist economy? The people at the top get the cheese, and I mean big cheese. The executive that was responsible for leading Delta Airlines into bankruptcy court left her position and received millions of dollars as a severance package. Meanwhile the workers were faced with a depreciated retirement package. Capitalism is not a Kingdom focused economy. Yes, each person has been endowed with the ability to seek financial freedom (that comes from an evangelical financial advisor). But the problem is this: Can a person obtain financial freedom within a capitalist economy? It has become glaringly obvious that they cannot. It is strange that most evangelicals will proclaim that this is a nation founded upon Christian principles, yet Kensyian economic philosophy has become the supreme denominator. It reaches into every aspect of our society ( the poor are poor because they do not work hard enough. Dickens wrote about the problem with this train of thought). One of the questions that perplexes me as I am studying to get my education degree is what is the purpose of an education. Within the traditional American bulwark an education is the means to a better job, which leads to more money, which leads to a better quality of life, etc. Is that what we have become? In America we do not have outbreaks of tuberculosis, or diptheria, malaria, or any other diseases. In America we only have a lack of entertainment. And that is the reduction of American capitalism. Entertainment. Disengagement from our brothers and sisters. I think I would proclaim myself socialist, and on the way to communism. Customer service aside; how do mega corporations manage to survive in a capitalist economy? The people at the top get the cheese, and I mean big cheese. The executive that was responsible for leading Delta Airlines into bankruptcy court left her position and received millions of dollars as a severance package. Meanwhile the workers were faced with a depreciated retirement package. Capitalism is not a Kingdom focused economy. Yes, each person has been endowed with the ability to seek financial freedom (that comes from an evangelical financial advisor). But the problem is this: Can a person obtain financial freedom within a capitalist economy? It has become glaringly obvious that they cannot. It is strange that most evangelicals will proclaim that this is a nation founded upon Christian principles, yet Kensyian economic philosophy has become the supreme denominator. It reaches into every aspect of our society ( the poor are poor because they do not work hard enough. Dickens wrote about the problem with this train of thought). One of the questions that perplexes me as I am studying to get my education degree is what is the purpose of an education. Within the traditional American bulwark an education is the means to a better job, which leads to more money, which leads to a better quality of life, etc. Is that what we have become? In America we do not have outbreaks of tuberculosis, or diptheria, malaria, or any other diseases. In America we only have a lack of entertainment. And that is the reduction of American capitalism. Entertainment. Disengagement from our brothers and sisters.

]]> By: Ariah Fine http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-13976 Ariah Fine Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:16:29 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/?p=1679#comment-13976 Whisper to Josh: your doing a great thing, in that your willing to challenge the indoctrinated thinking about economy in this country. Interesting that you got there by being disappointed with customer service, but good nonetheless. reimagining is key. If we start thinking about how we can live a Kingdom of God economy now, we will be going in the right direction. I'll read your second post now too. Just food for thought: http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2006/01/05/why-i-dont-shop-at-walmart/ Whisper to Josh: your doing a great thing, in that your willing to challenge the indoctrinated thinking about economy in this country. Interesting that you got there by being disappointed with customer service, but good nonetheless. reimagining is key. If we start thinking about how we can live a Kingdom of God economy now, we will be going in the right direction. I’ll read your second post now too.

Just food for thought:
http://blog.iamnotashamed.net/2006/01/05/why-i-dont-shop-at-walmart/

]]> By: Waking Up To The Little Things « missiodeiblog.com http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/01/15/reimaging-capitalism-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-13904 Waking Up To The Little Things « missiodeiblog.com Sat, 20 Jan 2007 06:42:34 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/?p=1679#comment-13904 [...] All of this is just to say stop.  Consider the world around you.  The little things that we rarely consider.  It will open our eyes to a much healthier perspective about this life and it just may help us to follow Jesus in a way that is more full.   I am just as guilty of this as anyone else and I often just tend to not think about the small things.  My friend Josh Brown is writing a little bit on Capitalism in America.  I do not agree with all of his thoughts but they have been helpful to me in stopping to consider something i do not regularly consider.  Part 1 is here &  part 2 is here.   [...] [...] All of this is just to say stop.  Consider the world around you.  The little things that we rarely consider.  It will open our eyes to a much healthier perspective about this life and it just may help us to follow Jesus in a way that is more full.   I am just as guilty of this as anyone else and I often just tend to not think about the small things.  My friend Josh Brown is writing a little bit on Capitalism in America.  I do not agree with all of his thoughts but they have been helpful to me in stopping to consider something i do not regularly consider.  Part 1 is here &  part 2 is here.   [...]

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