Comments on: The Consumptive Church: The Model Speaks Volumes http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/ irregularities and other absurdities Sat, 06 Mar 2010 04:23:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The Consumptive Church: The Non-List List | IAmJoshBrown http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/comment-page-1/#comment-69645 The Consumptive Church: The Non-List List | IAmJoshBrown Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:04:07 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/#comment-69645 [...] Point, Different Starting Points, The Religious Industrial Complex, Opium & 3 Legged Chairs, The Model Speaks Volumes, The Medium Is The Message, Appeasing The White Man’s [...] [...] Point, Different Starting Points, The Religious Industrial Complex, Opium & 3 Legged Chairs, The Model Speaks Volumes, The Medium Is The Message, Appeasing The White Man’s [...]

]]> By: The Consumptive Church: Appeasing The White Man’s Guilt | IAmJoshBrown http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/comment-page-1/#comment-69379 The Consumptive Church: Appeasing The White Man’s Guilt | IAmJoshBrown Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:09:27 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/#comment-69379 [...] Point, Different Starting Points, The Religious Industrial Complex, Opium & 3 Legged Chairs, The Model Speaks Volumes, The Medium Is The [...] [...] Point, Different Starting Points, The Religious Industrial Complex, Opium & 3 Legged Chairs, The Model Speaks Volumes, The Medium Is The [...]

]]> By: On Attending A Church at Trying to follow http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/comment-page-1/#comment-69048 On Attending A Church at Trying to follow Sun, 06 Jan 2008 16:57:49 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/#comment-69048 [...] was reading Derek’s post on Josh’s blog about the Consumptive Church and it got me interested and longing to find a house church group to meet with in my area. [...] [...] was reading Derek’s post on Josh’s blog about the Consumptive Church and it got me interested and longing to find a house church group to meet with in my area. [...]

]]> By: Nathan Myers http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/comment-page-1/#comment-67941 Nathan Myers Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:04:43 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/#comment-67941 Fwiw, Dan Kimball has a good post on hell over at his vintage faith blog; http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2007/11/if-you-think-im.html Fwiw, Dan Kimball has a good post on hell over at his vintage faith blog;

http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2007/11/if-you-think-im.html

]]> By: Derek http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/comment-page-1/#comment-67895 Derek Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:15:59 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2007/12/10/the-consumptive-church/#comment-67895 Maybe if I hadn't tried to rush a comment between an hour and a half of traffic and an all-day meeting, I might have caught Alan' sarcasm. (Or maybe if I knew Alan better.) In hindsight, that is pretty funny. Josh, back to Matthew 13. The point isn't to read it literally. The point is to consider Jesus' explanation. So the first part of the explanation is where Jesus lays out what each part of the parable/metaphor/allegory is: The farmer = Son of Man (Jesus) The field = the world Good seed = people of the Kingdom Weeds = people who belong to the evil one Enemy = Devil (evil one) Harvest = end of the world/age Harvesters = angels He then further explains the parable using a mixture of literal and figurative language. Don't get hung up on this - I imagine this was very cultural and typical. In any case, Jesus talked this way a lot. I do think that when Jesus says "the harvesters are angels" that He is talking about <i>literal</i> angels, for example, but I think the bad thing about traditional interpretation of passages like this is trying to make it <i>too</i> literal. If we do that, we might miss the main point of the passage. As an example, the main point of the creation story is not to detail, literally, how creation was made. It was to describe <i>who</i> the creator was. I don't care if it was a literal six day creation, a six epoch creation, evolution, a big bang, or God snapped a finger one day and suddenly everything was there. The point of Genesis 1 is to make it clear that creation was no accident, and that God was the creator. Similarly, I believe we can miss the point about Matthew 13 if we get wrapped up in how literal it may or may not be. I think the major point is this: that evil exists in this world because God is waiting for the church to mature into what He desires it to be. That at the end of the age, the church should reveal the full glory of God. The body of Christ must be prepared so that it can "shine like the sun" when all is finished. Are there are <i>so many other verses and passages in the New Testament to support this</i>. Whereas the total number of verses in the New Testament to support the "change the world" approach to church, in my count, as well as how many verses anyone has presented to me to support this, is zero. Ultimately, this is <i>why</i> we are called to live simply, to share, and to love others. This is why we are called to live right-side up in an upside-down world. It is because we are sanctified, set apart, and awaiting the return of our king, and as commanded in the New Testament, <i>numerous times</i>, we are called to be prepared for His return. Maybe if I hadn’t tried to rush a comment between an hour and a half of traffic and an all-day meeting, I might have caught Alan’ sarcasm. (Or maybe if I knew Alan better.) In hindsight, that is pretty funny.

Josh, back to Matthew 13. The point isn’t to read it literally. The point is to consider Jesus’ explanation. So the first part of the explanation is where Jesus lays out what each part of the parable/metaphor/allegory is:

The farmer = Son of Man (Jesus)
The field = the world
Good seed = people of the Kingdom
Weeds = people who belong to the evil one
Enemy = Devil (evil one)
Harvest = end of the world/age
Harvesters = angels

He then further explains the parable using a mixture of literal and figurative language. Don’t get hung up on this – I imagine this was very cultural and typical. In any case, Jesus talked this way a lot.

I do think that when Jesus says “the harvesters are angels” that He is talking about literal angels, for example, but I think the bad thing about traditional interpretation of passages like this is trying to make it too literal. If we do that, we might miss the main point of the passage.

As an example, the main point of the creation story is not to detail, literally, how creation was made. It was to describe who the creator was. I don’t care if it was a literal six day creation, a six epoch creation, evolution, a big bang, or God snapped a finger one day and suddenly everything was there. The point of Genesis 1 is to make it clear that creation was no accident, and that God was the creator.

Similarly, I believe we can miss the point about Matthew 13 if we get wrapped up in how literal it may or may not be. I think the major point is this: that evil exists in this world because God is waiting for the church to mature into what He desires it to be. That at the end of the age, the church should reveal the full glory of God. The body of Christ must be prepared so that it can “shine like the sun” when all is finished.

Are there are so many other verses and passages in the New Testament to support this. Whereas the total number of verses in the New Testament to support the “change the world” approach to church, in my count, as well as how many verses anyone has presented to me to support this, is zero.

Ultimately, this is why we are called to live simply, to share, and to love others. This is why we are called to live right-side up in an upside-down world. It is because we are sanctified, set apart, and awaiting the return of our king, and as commanded in the New Testament, numerous times, we are called to be prepared for His return.

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