Comments on: Frank Viola: I Was Wrong http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/ irregularities and other absurdities Sat, 06 Mar 2010 04:23:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: doogie http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-104837 doogie Thu, 14 May 2009 09:52:55 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/#comment-104837 To Mike Morrell: I don't know what "religous" or denominational background you come from but it is a very widely accepted belief that Paul's thorn was a person or group or spirit that resisted his work/ministry. The bible says clearly that it was a messenger of satan sent to "buffet" him. Buffet is the greek word kolaphizo which means 1. to strike with the fist, give one a blow with the fist 2. to maltreat, treat with violence and contumely It's used 4 other times in the NT (Matt 26:67, Mark 14:65, 1 Cor 4:11, and 1 Peter 2:20) Each time it denotes physical beating, abuse, hardship endured from an outside source, etc. The "messenger" in this passage is the greek word angelos which is defined as: a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God. Doesn't sound like a sickness to me. The word is used 181 times in the NT and every single time it refers to angels of God or satan, etc. The most common (accept in fundamental demoninations that reject modern healing, supernatural, etc) interpretation of Paul's thorn is that it was a spirit of persecution from Satan that resisted Paul wherever he went. I've heard this interpretation many times and it is shared by many scholars, writers, ministers, etc, etc from a wide spectrum. I honestly don't know how you can say it's a "minority" position in scholarly circles. My question would be, "what "circles" are you involved with?" I'm not saying this in anyway for or against Frank. This is strictly about the "Paul's thorn theory" and your comments regarding it. Seems like you want to make Frank appear "wrong" by saying that his position is uncommon or not commonly accepted. I have to disagree. This position is a very common position and fits much better the language and context than the other theory of it being a sickness or illness. To Mike Morrell: I don’t know what “religous” or denominational background you come from but it is a very widely accepted belief that Paul’s thorn was a person or group or spirit that resisted his work/ministry. The bible says clearly that it was a messenger of satan sent to “buffet” him. Buffet is the greek word kolaphizo which means
1. to strike with the fist, give one a blow with the fist
2. to maltreat, treat with violence and contumely
It’s used 4 other times in the NT (Matt 26:67, Mark 14:65, 1 Cor 4:11, and 1 Peter 2:20) Each time it denotes physical beating, abuse, hardship endured from an outside source, etc.
The “messenger” in this passage is the greek word angelos which is defined as: a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God. Doesn’t sound like a sickness to me. The word is used 181 times in the NT and every single time it refers to angels of God or satan, etc.

The most common (accept in fundamental demoninations that reject modern healing, supernatural, etc) interpretation of Paul’s thorn is that it was a spirit of persecution from Satan that resisted Paul wherever he went. I’ve heard this interpretation many times and it is shared by many scholars, writers, ministers, etc, etc from a wide spectrum.

I honestly don’t know how you can say it’s a “minority” position in scholarly circles. My question would be, “what “circles” are you involved with?”

I’m not saying this in anyway for or against Frank. This is strictly about the “Paul’s thorn theory” and your comments regarding it. Seems like you want to make Frank appear “wrong” by saying that his position is uncommon or not commonly accepted. I have to disagree. This position is a very common position and fits much better the language and context than the other theory of it being a sickness or illness.

]]> By: david glazer http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-78686 david glazer Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:18:16 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/#comment-78686 frank violoa stunk when he came to the mets! he had nothing on his heater any longer and the nl feasted on him. he was very good in his prime but had a mediocre overall career for a talent of his caliber. as an aside, he struck me out on three pitches in our only career match-up. frank violoa stunk when he came to the mets! he had nothing on his heater any longer and the nl feasted on him. he was very good in his prime but had a mediocre overall career for a talent of his caliber. as an aside, he struck me out on three pitches in our only career match-up.

]]> By: Jeff Pollner http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-72525 Jeff Pollner Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:54:36 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/#comment-72525 I am little late to this conversation so no one will probably read it; but, I need to call BS on some of F. Valdez's defense of F. Viola's talk. In particular "Frank is from a pentecostal background. He went from there right into house chuch (sic) gatherings. This is the type of preaching he heard as a young, growing Christian." Now, its been awhile, but I have both read and heard Viola's testimony. And while Pentecostal is part of it, so are a lot of groups. But more importantly - its been 20 freaking years since he was part of any of those groups. And he has given plenty of talks since then where he didn't sound like this. A far more credible defense might be that this was an uncharacteristic talk on his part. It saddens me to see his friends coming to spin for him - almost like he learned to well from his association with GE. (Note for the irony challenged: This last line is meant to be read with a huge heaping of sarcasm. I am little late to this conversation so no one will probably read it; but, I need to call BS on some of F. Valdez’s defense of F. Viola’s talk. In particular “Frank is from a pentecostal background. He went from there right into house chuch (sic) gatherings. This is the type of preaching he heard as a young, growing Christian.” Now, its been awhile, but I have both read and heard Viola’s testimony. And while Pentecostal is part of it, so are a lot of groups. But more importantly – its been 20 freaking years since he was part of any of those groups. And he has given plenty of talks since then where he didn’t sound like this. A far more credible defense might be that this was an uncharacteristic talk on his part. It saddens me to see his friends coming to spin for him – almost like he learned to well from his association with GE. (Note for the irony challenged: This last line is meant to be read with a huge heaping of sarcasm.

]]> By: A Sustainable Faith Podcast | IAmJoshBrown http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-72053 A Sustainable Faith Podcast | IAmJoshBrown Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:13:08 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/#comment-72053 [...] their podcast feed set up with the audio from the conference. I know some of you were interested in Frank Viola’s audio that I previously mentioned. And there are some other good things on there with Danielle, Troy, and Tim being the ones I heard [...] [...] their podcast feed set up with the audio from the conference. I know some of you were interested in Frank Viola’s audio that I previously mentioned. And there are some other good things on there with Danielle, Troy, and Tim being the ones I heard [...]

]]> By: Pagan Christianity?? (part 1) « Revolution 115 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/comment-page-2/#comment-71753 Pagan Christianity?? (part 1) « Revolution 115 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:16:57 +0000 http://www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog/2008/02/04/frank-viola-i-was-wrong/#comment-71753 [...] Josh Brown has some mixed thoughts of Viola’s message and presentation here. [...] [...] Josh Brown has some mixed thoughts of Viola’s message and presentation here. [...]

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