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Challenging the Critiques of Emergent: We Hate Scripture
Upfront Disclaimer: I do not speak for anyone on the board at Emergent Village, nor am I assuming the position of spokesperson. I speak from a position of proximity and friendship with emergent. And if you want to put a label on it (something I will hopefully make a point about), then by God, you can consider me emergent. I recognize up front and am fully aware that as with any group, the possibility for mistakes exist. So I am in no way in favor of giving Emergent “a get out of jail free card” from receiving criticism. I simply hope to push back against the criticism and remind everyone (myself?) of the spirit of emergent, instead of taking pot shots. I also will be careful of how exactly I capitalize e/Emergent, so please pay attention to my attempted nuance.
1 - An Introduction, 2 - A White Man’s World, 3 - Trend/Denomination, 4- A Public Service Announcement on Friendship
For those who haven’t noticed, I ran out of a bit of steam last week. I probably bit off more than I could chew and leaned to far towards my ambitious side. I also relied to heavily on my optimism in reason and friendship, thinking that they would help give some people the benefit of the doubt. I guess I didn’t realize just how opposed to both of those things some people are. Oh well. The first two criticisms, A White Man’s World and Trend/Denomination have for the most part come from friends or at least sympathizers with Emergent. The next two criticisms (We Hate Scripture and We Are The Bastard Child of Evangelicalism and Lack Any Real Effect In The Spreading of the Gospel) come more from the angry, conservative branches of the Christian right. So I’m bracing myself for a different kind of commenter. And if any of you have the time or feel like entering the fray this week, now would be a good time to share your thoughts on these, so I don’t have to resort to my own angry, cursing sailor self. Cheers.
Here is today’s criticism . . . Emergents hate scripture and don’t believe in God’s word. Or something along those lines.
The topic of scripture is something I’ve written about extensively on this blog. I even did a series of collected thoughts that you can find here. So I’m not going to get into an exhaustive(ing) discourse of the academic, narrative, spiritual, intellectual, and historical work that I think is necessary to understand the finer points of many emergents and their perspectives on scripture. Including my own. You can read my thoughts at the above link or you can read or listen to where I got my thoughts from with McLaren, Jones, Pagitt, Butler-Bass, or any of the other leaders who have written on the topic.
Bottom line . . . never in my short heretical life have I heard any emergent-esque person or friend say they hate the bible. In fact, I’ve never heard anybody even speak derogatorily about the narrative of scripture, outside of a few of us who tend to work ourselves up into a dither when talking about Paul’s own set of issues that he brings to the table. But that’s another story.
I’m not just saying this because it makes my point, but I’m in a lot of conversations in person and around the web and I never hear anyone talk disparagingly about scripture.
Listening to the critics you would think that we all get together to drink a few beers in a bar and decide to all take out our pocket new testaments out for a quick page tearing. “I hate the bible! I wish I could get rid of the pages that I don’t like so I can marry people of the same sex!” Or, “Screw this damned leather bound student edition of the bible so I can have sex with my college girlfriend!”
Contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t exactly go down like that.
I think there are a growing group of people (with which emergents are just one group) who are simply trying to be honest in our approach to the text. This is something that many in the mainline have understood for a while, but something that many of us post-evangelicals are just beginning to rediscover.
In the past, many of us approached the bible like a black and white text book. We read it like science. And we stripped mined it for “resources”, which is a nice way of saying “proof-texts that agree with our perspective or reinforce our theologies”. We read ourselves into it acknowledging our own local, particular place of perspective.
We still read ourselves into the story but now we attempt to do better at recognizing our own limited and biased perspectives. We now read it with all of it’s nuance. It’s not just black and white science but poetry, romance, history, imagination, discourse, personal letter, family journal.
I think that metaphor works best for us. That of family journal or photo album. If my grandmother was a famous lecturer and specialist in her field . . . I could learn about her by reading her lectures, articles, books, and theses. But if I relied on that to learn about my grandmother, I would never “know” her. I would only “know about” her. To truly know my grandmother, it would make sense to be in relationship with her. And if by some chance she had passed on from this life . . . then I would get to know her by getting to know the people that knew her. I’d spend time talking to her friends. I’d listen to their stories of her. I’d read her journal. Or her love letters to her husband. Or I’d flip through a scrapbook of her pictures and of her travels. In a sense . . . the community of my grandmother. That is the home in which my grandmother makes sense.
This approach to my grandmother would give me a much fuller and richer understanding of her.
It is to this way that many of us approach the text of scripture.
We aren’t attempting to refashion our “grandmothers” into our context. We’re simply let our “grandmothers” be what they are . . . full of beauty and peculiarity. The value of the text then moves away from abstract, detached “truths” and towards local, honest narratives of our family’s history. Stories of how our family/community related to God and how God in turn related to them. In this light, the idea of narrative is not some idealistic way for us to diss scripture.
It just means that it’s value is rooted in something entirely different than right or wrong assertions to truth. It’s value is in that the community has claimed it as it’s story. Sharing it. Giving it. Receiving it. But never owning it.
If this means we “hate scripture” or “twist it to fit our culture” then I suppose we’re guilty as charged. I just happen to think it means that we appreciate it for what it is, the story of the community of God with all it’s flavor, diversity, and nuance.
Again . . . I’m not going to write some lengthy response to this criticism because many other people have done a much better and more comprehensive job of it. Tony Jones’ banned lecture at Wheaton being at the top of the list. And partly because nothing we say will appease the critics on this one. I will add one last thought though . . . I think what “side of the fence” you come down on this is incredibly foundational to wherever you go from here. I think this is why there is such a great discrepancy among christians when it comes to war, atonement, ecclesiology, end-times, salvation, and Jesus to name a few. So I understand why so many of the critics are concerned about “the slippery road” as they perceive it.
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34 comments for “Challenging the Critiques of Emergent: We Hate Scripture”
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Josh, thanks for that post.
To extend your final analogy: as someone who pretends to be standing at the side of the road, clinging to the railings, I’m trying to work out who is slipping downhill, who is actually attached to the ski-lift and is heading upwards, and who has been standing still so long that they are frozen to the spot.
It’s very evident to me that any time we think we know the “plain simple meaning” of a document which has been in common possession for 2000 years, which has been interpreted by thousands (millions) of scholars, and which has, indeed, helped to shape the very language in which we now discuss it, we delude ourselves.
I’m thrilled to find people who want to take scripture seriously, yet are not satisfied to take the hermeneutics of a previous generation on trust. It’s a big adventure - or would be, if I could only let go of the railings.
Thanks too for the pointer to Tony Jones’ lecture. Why was it “banned”?: it seems to say little more than “here I stand” - one could agree or disagree with its message, but I’d hardly find it subversive or offensive.
[I think I have a habit of heading off at a tangent to your blog posts when I comment ... sorry if I've done that again :-). ]
thanks, josh. this particular criticism sends me into fits. you addressed it well.
If this means we “hate scripture” or “twist it to fit our culture” then I suppose we’re guilty as charged.
And hence why this movement is so dangerous. When I hear leaders of the Emergent Church deny the most basic concepts such as the existence of Hell or heaven then we have moved away from truth and entered the realm of false teaching.
Yeah call me a Pharisee because I am sure that is coming or a doctrine police but if simple truths are twisted as the above quote says then so be it.
When the social gospel is held higher than the true gospel we have abandoned the faith. Both are equally important. And I would say the Good News is way more important that feeding the poor at the end of the day. I can have a belly full of food today but in 1 million years if I am suffering in hell than what good has it truly done? Unless I feed the poor AND give them the Good News I have failed the great commission.
well i’m assuming i didn’t piss anybody off today. good news indeed. off to more work and phone calls.
Tried to comment last night but it must be lost in cyberspace so thought I’d try again. I have sense read Tony Jones’ banned lecture. WOW. And thank you Josh.
About three years before I ever heard the words Emergent Church a former pastor (current friend) and his wife confessed to us that he had recently been asked to leave the local expression of the National Association of Evangelical Pastors after nearly 20 years of participation and leadership within that group. My surprise was quickly replaced by a feeling I don’t quite know how to discribe as my friend began to explain the circumstances about which this request had been made. I felt as if I had finally reached the surface and gasped a first breath of air after having been under water almost long enough to drowned. Our friend had gotten tired of teaching scripture and hearing himself say things like, “Paul says in ____________ thus and so but he really means thus and such.” So finally, he decided to quit adjusting the scripture to fit his doctrine and start re-examining his doctrine in light of what he saw in scripture. The experience for him (and his family) was life changing. Some of the changes were extremely painful–Christians can be some of the most masochistic (beating up on their own body) people I know–but all of the changes brought him to a deeper relationship with God. I share all that to say this–If as Tony Jones says the bottom line of the Emergent movement is, “There is no orthodoxy without orthopraxy” then it will survive the criticism and not only enrich us all but respond to the criticism by further self examination–the kind of Body examination that started the movement in the first place–and positive change.
@Wes
We’re not holding social justice to a higher level than the true gospel, we (or at least I) feel like social justice is part of the “true gospel.” But this is likely an argument for an entirely different post.
@Matt
Is the Bible the sole repository of the Good News? The true Gospel?
No.
We (followers of Christ) are repositories as well.
I think the good news can be hidden (or place in plain sight) in things/places/persons outside the bible. If it all points back to Christ, then it’s good news to me.
Really? Is the gospel contained in the book of mormon, in the koran? They talk about Jesus does that mean they are true also? Are those legitimate places to find out about Christ?
To start a journey? Yes!
If you want to go down this road of the bible being the only place the houses the good news, then what do you do with those who don’t have access to the bible?
Wes - what do you mean when you say gospel?
Josh - I had to laugh about the “sex excuse” line. I hear that all the time from critics, but never from within the emerging church. Kinda makes one wonder what’s on these critics’ minds…
[...] Challenging the Critiques of Emergent: We Hate Scripture | IAmJoshBrown (tags: emergent theology bible) [...]
@Matt
Really, So when the book of mormon says lucifer is the brother of Jesus you agree with that? And when the koran says Jesus did not die on the cross you agree with that? How does that line up with the Bible? Just curious?
The problem isn’t whether a person has a Bible or not the problem is John 3:19. Essentially we all have enough light to know Jesus(by the creation around us) but we choose to love our wickedness rather than loving the light.
Jesus will reveal Himself to those who hear his voice.
I’m not saying that book of mormon or the koran is the end all be all of Jesus, nor am I saying that they get everything about him correct. What I am saying is (from my limited understanding as I’ve never read either text) they do talk about qualities of him that reflect his goodness. So if the source someone has to begin to try to understanding Jesus is the Koran then so be it.
You’re limiting God when you say the Gospel is only proclaimed through the Bible.
@Julie
It is the “Good News”
It means a gift from God. It is the proclamation of the forgiveness of sins and sonship with God restored through Christ. It means remission of sins and reconciliation with God. The gospel is not only a message of salvation, but also the instrument through which the Holy Spirit works.
It is not a book but that is how God chose to communicate His Gospel message to “most” of us.
@Matt,
So you have no problem with a book denouncing the deity of Christ? Weird.
I am curious how you can even determine what is right and wrong then if there is no “standard”. Maybe Jesus didn’t die on the cross as the koran claims? How would I know this is right or wrong?
Denouncing the Diety of Christ? Hell no!
Attempting to show he’s not in the box we’ve kept him in for years? Yes!
[...] Challenging the Critiques of Emergent: We Hate Scripture | IAmJoshBrown (tags: bible blog emergent theology toread) [...]
@Matt
Well how do you know Christ is God? Did He whisper that in your ear?
Well I am glad that you don’t agree with the koran or the book of mormon.
Would you agree that God has communicated His truth through the Bible? If something does not agree with the Bible is it safe to say that it is not correct?
@WES
conversation is done. we’ve been through this on countless other posts on my site. and even through email as early as today. remember?
no more fighting to try and get us to see your side. you’re not looking for conversation. you’re looking to convert and that isn’t kosher for me. so you know the drill as i’ve shared with you in comments and email before . . . my finger is hot on the spam mouse.
for those who think i might be rude in doing this . . . wes and i have exchanged a few emails today (and more a couple of months ago). and i kindly asked him not to try and pick fights.
this an excerpt from my email that wes agreed with and decided to let it go. only to jump back to the blog to do the dirty work. so just covering my bases in case any of you think i’m rude. i’m not. just not interested in fighting.
“it sounds instead like you’re trying to convert me or fix me. neither of which i’m comfortable with since you’re a total stranger. if you’re ever in atlanta, give me a heads up and i’ll buy you a coffee. or a southern sweet tea. let’s be honest, nothing i say is going to make you feel comfortable about my theology unless i assent to what you do. and i think we both know that i don’t. i would hope that you weren’t trying to bait me into some sort of trap with the last email, so i’ll take it as a curious question. since i was generous and open with you in answering your first set of questions . . . let’s quit while i’m ahead.”
NP I was just trying to dialog with Matt. I will end my conversation. But honestly I am not trying to “convert” anyone. I am more talking about how we know truth.
Anyways I will respect your wish.
thanks wes.
Again the term picking a fight is not my hearts desire.
Here is my response to Josh’s email above.
Not my intention to bait and trap you. I was just curious. Np I am not trying to argue with you or the likes. Just honest questions about your views because so many of them are so different then what I think. Ok enough harassing you (not really but you know what I mean). I have another question for you about your Romans scripture but I will save for when I am in Atlanta.
fair enough wes. i should have included that in my comment. sorry about that.
Wes- if you wish to continue our conversation I’m open to it. You can e-mail me at mattscott306 at comcast dot net.
If you do ever take Josh up on the coffee I’ll chip in for a second cup for a seat at the table.
Josh,
I like this post. It frustrates me to hear many conservative criticisms of emergents in relation to the scriptures. We need to pay far more attention to the many genres in the Bible if we’re going to find God. It is, among other things, sound exegesis. Conservatives say the same thing, but many can’t bring themselves to agree when emergents say it.
Whatever specific disagreements there are between the two groups, the “emergents hate the Bible” thing is a bum rap.
Great batch of posts, bro. Enlightening reads, all of them. Thank you!
… be encouraged.
Are we, as Christians, to pick and choose what we believe to be truth- as written in the Bible? If we make the decision to believe one part of the Bible and not another then why wouldn’t another person have the right to accept just the opposite of what I did. Then take this thought a few steps further and one can then argue that nothing in the Bible is truth. Is it the 10 commandments or the 10 suggestions? Real Christians put on their biblical glasses to see the world around them rather than wearing human/societal glasses to read and study the Bible. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t it say in Revelations that we are not to add or take away from the Bible least we be removed from the tree of life?
Where are we taking away from the bible? Where do we disbelieve in one part of the bible?
I think you’re over-assuming there Brian, I’ve never met an emergent who disbelieves parts of the Bible, or takes away from the Bible…
Mat
I might not have read/looked at the emergent close enough… but in what I have read, there seems to be acceptance of “New Age” (mostly eastern mysticism) views along with aspects of the koran and other teachings. Would this not lead to worshiping idols? I don’t believe we put God in a box if we follow what He gave us in the Bible only. The Bible warns us about false teaching and teachers- see 2 Peter 2.
Brian- You most surely have not looked at emergent close enough. I challenge you to show me any sort of evidence that there is an acceptance of the teachings of the Koran.
What is your view of a false teacher?
My friend, I feel like you’re listening to the words of someone else without giving any real thought or study into emergent. I’d love it if you’d read through one or a few books on emergent, I’d suggest A New Kind of Christian by Brian McLaren.
I will look into emergent much more closely- I don’t want to harm anything that brings people to salvation through Jesus’s shed blood and God’s grace. It just is that I have watched churches (including my church in the past) grab onto a “new” type of teaching that ultimately leads people away from the truth in the Bible.
[...] lumped in with a critique of emergent (something Josh Brown recently highlighted in an excellent series) and the low view of scripture they’re accused of having, I’m unsure. But there we have [...]
We all live in a state of ambitious poverty.
– Decimus Junius Juvenalis
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