Right on. My thoughts (lately) exactly.

ooh… nice. Thanks for that perspective. I desire to eat real food, and not just things that “look” like real food, but I fall into the same excuse traps you mentioned. Thanks for opening your mouth!

Wow -
This is so true.

that’s good, Josh.

The problem, of course, is not for those of us who can drop our cable bills, lower our cell phone extras, and go for a cheaper car. The problem is for the people for whom those kinds of things aren’t attainable at all - who, after paying rent and utilities, have a couple of twenties left over to feed six people for the next two weeks.

All of that said, prices are getting much, much better, I’ve noticed, on organic options. Especially as the traditional grocery stores carry more and more of it and put it right beside the traditional options. But I don’t think we’re there quite yet.

what’s interesting as well is how if you do spend money for quality food, then you’re somehow perceived as indulgent or selfish…

exactly d10.

another interesting thing is to know about the tax subsidies that every industrial corn farmer gets. something like $30,000 grand a year all because the government has driven the cost of corn down so low that it’s now pretty much worthless because of quantity. so when you start factoring that cost in on the backend and with other things like healthcare costs, you realize that when you go buy some corn fed beef at wal-mart or publix, you’re not paying a true cost for that meat. or when you buy a bag of chips or a case of cokes.

…though the price of corn has skyrocketed as much of it has been dumped into ethanol research, which looks like a dead-end.

And then corn farmers getting subsidized combined with free trade agreements enables American farmers to export corn into Mexico at lower prices than the Mexican farmers can produce it; thus driving the Mexican farmers into little to no profitability, which leads to their emigration to the United States to feed their families, which leads to fearmongering Americans wanting them out of America, when it is the very subsidizing of corn and NAFTA that has driven them from their homeland to America.

A vicious cycle.

forget the cell phones and TV stuff. All it takes is eating less meat. We gorge ourselves on the stuff, making ourselves unhealthy and feeding the factory farm system. Choosing to give up meat at every meal (or even everyday) would make is possible to buy good meat for when we do indulge.

I completely agree. We have to make the right decisions. Many people don’t even look at what they’re eating or how and the result is they’re still spending a lot of money on food, just junk food, and then they complain about how expensive “orgainic” stuff can be.

It is all about choices. The modern American just doesn’t want it to cost them anything.

Peace.

I completely agree with Julie. We need to cut WAY back on our meat consumption, for health and environmental reasons (see http://www.tii-clics.org/Archive1/Beef.html ). Then when we DO get a hankering for a slab o’ beef, we can splurge on some good stuff!

Having shopped at farmers’ markets for the past year-and-a-bit of my life, I would actually say that buying local + organic has not made a huge dent in my bank account.

Mind, I’m not buying from some big supermarket, but I think that’s partly the point as well. Buying from the farmer directly means some costs are cut out of the equation.

There are ebbs and flows to the season, and we don’t buy tomatoes in January, because tomatoes don’t grow in January anywhere nearby…

But it’s a matter of re-envisioning food and where it comes from. Canning tomatoes for the winter is something I’m sure Wendell Berry would call “good work.” It’s good for you, it’s good for the community, it’s good for the soil too.

I heart farmer’s markets and CSA. As much as possible, I suspect it’s the way to go - so long as we reduce consumption of the things we don’t need. And actually, it costs less to buy things in bulk - so buy half a lamb and freeze it. The cost per pound goes down dramatically, and you get a number of cuts to choose from and experiment with.

i would recommend checking out the documentary, “the future of food” - it freaked us out

http://godgrown.net/blog/2007/04/23/are-they-spraying-agent-orange-on-your-oranges/

Also, i heard somewhere that Americans spend WAY less proportionally on food than any other nation in the world. even other industrialized, western nations. we just don’t care what we put in us.

MY question is - what about the 1 billion people without water/food AT ALL? are we too overpopulated on this earth for everyone to eat produce grown on sustainable land?

Interesting thoughts - however, your arguement only works for the elite that have 100 dollar cell phone bills, lots of satellite or cable channels and a bunch of extra doe-rae-me to buy designer clothes.

The arguement further deteriorates when you take a look at the population that shop at Whole Foods and other organic grocery stores. The elite that you describe are the folks consuming natural, organic chicken and beef. In other words, they have already ascribed to your musings here.

You are neglecting the larger percentage of the population that can’t afford to take a cab to the fancy suburbs to shop in the organic food stores.

Your arguements appear to be coming from an elitist perspective. Might I assume that you fall into this demographic?

oh tony . . . where would i be without your snarky assiness spouting about the elitism of the suburbs? i forgot that god is only god in the inner city ghetto.

and lets not act stupid. you know as well as i do that many people living in government housing or on welfare or neither of the above but just live check to check, they have 100 cell phone bills just like the rest of us. and they have satellite tv. and suv with $1000 rims. come on dude. i’m not saying they need to pick up the fam, hope in the escalade and roll up to the burbs to whole foods.

if you followed my site on a regular basis, you would know that i think whole foods is just as industrial and flawed as any other grocery store. if you’d quit lurking in the background looking for something to bitch about my suburban context, you would know that.

I love the chat.

I’d really like to see yours and others very practical examples of what this actually looks like. Grocery budgets and all.

On that note, I’m very excited about a the possibility of a food coop in my neighborhood.

Wow Josh -
I was trying to be nice! I guess this is an example of how it’s sometimes hard to discern a person’s attitude through a typed message. Snarky assiness? Act stupid? Lurking around for something to bitch about?

My point is that you’re arguement is based within an upper-class CONTEXT, an perhaps a narrow perspective which is neither here nor there - it’s what it is. Why the bitterness?

not bitter dude. but if i’m not mistaken aren’t you the same guy that sent me all of those emails calling me a hypocrite back during the emergent series of posts. when i had the audacity to write about male privilege and white power. that’s why i don’t have time for people who don’t comment on any other post but who lurk in the background waiting to find something wrong. and then to have the gonads to start chiming in about how elitist i am. are you kidding me? you don’t even know me.

Josh -
I think you got the wrong guy on the hypocrite e-mails. I comment on several posts and and have one of my own. I don’t think I lurk around in the background - whatever the heck that means. You’re a Christian, and you treat people like this? Well then pardon me for attempting to engage you in a conversation! Why are you so angry? I suggested that your argument came from an elitist perspective, and asked you if your demographic would prompt your argument from that context.

I didn’t know that your blog was intended for just people who know you. I assumed that it was an open forum for conversation. I’ll refrain from commenting in the future.

You might consider treating others with opposing views a little more generously instead of calling them names and shutting them out.

i’m not angry. you called me an elitist. and i just think that’s lame. you don’t know me. so comment all you want to. i don’t mind an open forum for conversation. but an opern forum for conversation doesn’t mean you get to come on here once every 3 months and call me an elitist. no more than open conversation means i get to call you a douche bag when you act like one. i just keep those thoughts to myself. it might be wise for you to do the same until you meet me and get to know me. until then, keep the thoughts to yourself or give me the benefit of the doubt.

you have a post/blog of your own? where’s it at? you didn’t provide a link on your name or in your comment.

Consider it done. I will keep my thoughts to myself. I’m sorry I made you angry - I didn’t mean to -nor did I call you an elitist - I said it sounded as though you had an elitist attitude. The intent was the thought that you might look in the mirror - I do, and I see, in the reflection, a west-suburban guy with a rather elitist attitude toward life and toward how I think others should live their lives. I don’t like what I see and I try to change. I heard the same ring in your post, so I simply was pointing out the attitude. Sorry.